Sad & Offscaled Cars (HS)

[Geminiyo]

If its metter today.
Its the list of wrong scaled cars to High Stakes:

Ford Mustang SVT Cobra-R (P'2000) - is smaller than needed.


Porsche GT3 (P'03) (M.Leps original) - is a bit smaller than needed.


Lamborghini Diablo Evolution GTR - is waaaay too small.


All the Zpectre cars is a bit too small.

Its an archive of those 3 (i mentioned).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmqNtDg30G6eEw0Q19Zelc1X3M/view?usp=sharing

[FranknFurter]

Hi Geminiyo .. what do you base the cars upon considering them as to small? The SVT and the Porsche even seem a bit too large to me ..

that Diablo is downscaled seems correct to me but the driver is way too small seems the author forgot to deselect the driver when scaling

Have you imported them into ZModeler and based the grid on 'real meters' or NFS4 meters (1.06)?

When I import cars I select the whels and measure the wheelbase by selecting the bottommost vertices giving me the car's actual wheelbase in the 'properties' menu ..

2000' Mustang has a wheelbase of little more than 2.5m that's two head's length taller than a man's height .. that not much ..

that 997 Porsche has a wheelbase of less then 2.4m even, that's a tiny car isn't it?

the greatest wheelbase should come with the Diablo of about 2.65m ..

If you base it on 'NFS4 meters' grid (factor 1.06) and still differs from wheelbase in carp.txt (if it is correctly entered there) so is then wrong for 'Standard' NFS usage .. I usually base cars on 'real meters' so they appear as to small for most if I scale them ...

'common' classic muscle cars like the Charger have a compared to that truly huge wheelbase of 3.00m or more

btw. the wheelbase entry in carp.txt actually has certain influence on the car's vertical stability when driving
means the longer the wheelbase the more stable it behaves concerning pitch affinity .. the 'pitch roll factor' is only a multiplication factor for the visual car body's movement ..

Allow me a little anecdote here at this point concerning car's sizes: I saw a nearby Countach once and was kinda impressed by the car's 'height' .. it actually wasn't even as tall as the park bench's back I had been sitting on ..

[Geminiyo]

Please take a look.

This Cobra-R seems to be too large (to me)


I have to mention this car - Shelby Series 1
I think this car is looks scaled well, right ?


...its nice and fast muscle car... but.. with no roof...sadly

There is archive of both, if needed
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmqNtDg30G6M0tocjduZF9kTTQ/view?usp=sharing
-----------------------------------------------------

"what do you base the cars upon considering them..."
by the eyes and by the virtual understanding of center measure...

in ZModeler, im an lost soul...

...the wheelbase entry in carp.txt actually has certain influence on the car's vertical stability when driving"
only if you agree if default HS handling is suits to you very well. ...then Yes. Mostly is Not.

[FranknFurter]

perhaps the car appears to large in menu when isn't centered correctly agreed ..

.. but to show you something different about size relations I attached a few pics here:

First one is a custom made roadster conversion of Yuriy Antipin's LDVT6, even if the wheelbase is still about 10cm too long (although I had downscaled it already) it appears very small in NFS car menu but then in-game it seems correct since it is a very large or better 'broad' car concerning its width and length ..

Second is a rework of Bandenchef's Countach LP400S .. as a gag I 'opened' the driver door .. can you see how flat and small that car really is compared to the -not downscaled- driver?

I saw internet pics of the real car with a driver inside that looked similar ..

Third one shows Krystoff's '69 Charger I'm currently reworking .. has a wheelbase of nearly 3.00m .. it appears as well large in menu and it actually is a large car with an overall length of almost 5.4m ...

What I want to tell you is that just eyes can be deceiving and mostly you cannot tell from just looking at it in menu .. import the car(s) into ZModeler and check either its overall length or width (w/o mirrors) or the wheelbase length by above described method (and choose you desired grid base 'real meters' or NFS4 'meters'before) ..

about driving behaviour I can only say that NFS calculates car physics by certain benchmark data .. if you have a look into carp.txt and recalculate e.g. by RealTuner you might notice certain changes in values .. if you alter certain values it has influence on the car's driving behaviour ...

[Geminiyo]

A bit difficult to say ...
In HS car shall be more closer to larger size. Visualy it doesnt hurts. Visually larger cars is making HS looks more than a more an Modern (HS physics)

For me, all 3 cars you have mention is looks not bad and not worse.

Zpectre's Corvette C6-r and BMW GTR. ...are the Zpectre's biggest mistakes. SRT10 Viper - maybe not.

Smaller cars is feels like them are ... had no enough resources  (in HS code) to drag that car to the end, to see it perfect. /// Im not saying the cars must be larger, no. They have to be suiting Martin Leps' cars dimansions.

...thats what i think. Im thinking im right.

[FranknFurter]

Standard rendition of cars is as said factor 1.06 .. that's why in Zmodeler you can either choose 'real' size meters or 'NFS4 meters' is factor 1.06 .. that what you mean? the car's visual size doesn't have actual influence on the car physics not to be mistaken ..

[Geminiyo]

How so ?

By the any chance, may i see the drifting Lim. in HS ? (with swaped Engine like)

[FranknFurter]

listen .. I don't exactly know what you want, is it size of cars, physics .. I don't know how I can help ..

Wait until I finished preparing the 'Smokey and the Bandit' game setup .. if you manage to steer the Snowman Semi truck w/o hitting anything or leaving the track then let's talk again k?

Since that one can and should only be controlled by NFS AI engine ..

[Geminiyo]

I can predict that noone will argue on that opinion. But I'd stay with thought: Smaller than 1.06 is not better.

[FranknFurter]

Man you're sooo right .. and I don't give a 'delightful thought' ..

[Geminiyo]

"...I don't exactly know what you want, is it size of cars, physics..."

Lets talk then
Here's Buldozer. Alright ?
http://www.nfsaddons.com/nfshs/cars/Other/908/

I downloaded this car with energised intentions to make an 4lower version of it. Lets say its Buldozer GT3. If you never seen the drifting and sliding Buldozer, you may want to check it in.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmqNtDg30G6TDJNMVNDMUR3TXc/view?usp=sharing

Relatively the Wheel Base again: Im absolutely not sure if that Buldozer has right or wrong propotions. But this car is definately looks larger than Your TS50, which is the fact, and there wasnt a huge problem to adopt it to 4LOWER handling style (its harder to do that with small cars, which will never respond for realism, atleast in HS)

Its at least what Im thinking. Hopefuly Im not wrong on that.

[Geminiyo]

These 2 is a NICE looking cars... but they are Offscaled as well.

This one is way too large (also may you help... who is the Author?)


This one is way too small


One more. Who is the Author of this beauty? (its alright with Scale. Just Asking)

[Remko]

The Jaguar I'm sure is this one: http://www.nfscars.net/need-for-speed-high-stakes/2/files/view/5657/
I downloaded it myself, but wasn't a fan, I agree it looks too big for the driver.

The Hamann BMW is this one (uploaded that one myself, back in 2003): http://www.nfsaddons.com/nfshs/cars/BMW/765/

About the Fiat 124 Spider, I'm not sure if the size is wrong, it is a pretty small car in real life (about the size of a BMW Z3 or a Mazda MX-5).
Hard to judge from the menu screen, maybe the big wheels on this one make it seem out of proportion.

[MADMAN_nfs]

Geminiyo, you should really expain in detail HOW you MEASURE the scale. What do you use as reference object? Do you evaluate the scale in the menu only? Because that is not really a reliable way to go - the menu in NFS4 has an automatic scaling that will change depending on the 3d model that is loaded! For very big 3d models (trucks etc) you will notice, the menu will show the object smaller so it is better fitting in.

So if you talking about the overall size, you're better off with the way Frank suggested and use ZModeler. Or you talking about proportion ratios (tire-carbody, driver-carbody, width-height etc.), thats not really clear to me tbh?

[Zpectre]

@Geminiyo: My cars have scaling issues because I was a n00b back then and ported them straight from Most Wanted without resizing bodies and tires, however I feel like they do compare favorably with cars by other people except for the tires which are too small in some cases.

Jaguar is from General but XJ220 made a better version on the same base (NFS6 car).