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Messages - PomFrit

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1
Does anyone know how to convert objects from Blender to T3ED? I'm wondering if it's a common thing and I missed it somewhere or not and I should write a guide on how to do it (it's been a few days since I figured it out).

2
So column 4, 5, C and D are combination of chrome effect and weather effect.

02 - low chrome with always dry road, weather effects has no effect on this
04 - normal chrome with dry or wet road, depends on weather effects disabled or enabled

3
It's, wrong modeled part of the track. On the picture is originaly Kindiak, if i'm not wrong. If you split vertices, on corrupted greens, you can see doubled polygons. Only chance to fix this, is propably replace broken blocks with not broken and remodel it. It looks like midle polygons are not on middle, but they are moved to the side. This problem have most of EA tracks, like France, Snowy, Ruins, ...

4
Columns 6 , 7 , E and F in "unknown data" are the sound effects.

I'm sure 04 is sound effect with echo used for tunnels / caves / rocks and 00 is no effect used on most of the track. I tested 01, 02, which i found on atlantica, but i didn't hear any difference.

5
I was wrong about columns 4 , 5 , C and D in "unknown data". They are the chrome intensity of the car. Column 4 and C for left side, column 5 nad D for right side. Sides are reversed than for the AI lines !

I'm sure 02 is the darkest / weakest chrome used for tunnels and 05 is normal chrome used on most of the track. I tested 00, 01, 04, 06, 07, 08, 0A, 0F but the difference from 05 is barely noticeable or none.

6
I don't know what do you mean by "lane alignment", i had to see what you did. I tested this just few times and it helped me ( for example AI now see pillars on Scorpio 7 ).

Obstacles are for AI problem only if they didn't follow float numbers or if you have AI float line wrong. Float numbers too close to obstacle may cause AI panic.
Maybe you have AI lines too thin. Middle of AI line may leads through obstacle and AI mostly follow middle, if not following float numbers ( propably Landstrasse or Raceway 3 tunel problem ).
Maybe put obstacle number few Vroad nodes sooner that actualy is, AI may react too late.

Save your track somewere, send link i can look on it.

7
I look into "unknow data" closer and i think column 0 and 8 are AI lines for the right side and 1 an 9 for the left side.
It's not properly tested, but this is few numbers of my teory ( in brackets are AI lines you can use ):

Right side:

80 - 1 line ( 112 )
C0 - 2 lines ( 112,128 )
E0 - 3 lines ( 112,128,144 )
60 - 3 lines with obstacle in line 112 ( 128,144 )
F0 - 4 lines ( 112,128,144,160 )
70 - 4 lines with obstacle in line 112 ( 128,144,160 )
F8 - 5 lines ( 112,128,144,160,176 )

Left side:

01 - 1 line ( 96 )
03 - 2 lines ( 96,80 )
07 - 3 lines ( 96,80,64 )
06 - 3 lines with obstacle in line 96 ( 80,64 )
0F - 4 lines ( 96,80,64,48 )
0E - 4 lines with obstacle in line 96 ( 80,64,48 )
1F - 5 lines ( 96,80,64,48,32 )

There is more numbers indicate more and bigger obstacles/impassable areas for AI ( lots of in Red Rock ) and numbers which im not sure. It will require a lot of testing.

Edit: Partialy tested on Scorpio7. AI starts avoiding pillars, but needs to be reworked. It was made with blind AI and now AI see pillars and panic on some places.

8
Quote
May it is different because the VRoad line is on the right side, while on DR it is on left?
I think the same, column 0 and 8 is for right side, 1 and 9 is for left side, but correct number will be tricky. Pillars on Landstrasse tunel are on the line 96, but pillar obstacle is set to 0E and road 0F and also road on line 112 is E0 and not F0, which is confusing.

9
Here are two pictures taken from "Durham Road" Actually I think it is the first two bytes (of eight) that are important.

EA propably have different ways how to solve divied roads. I'm struggle with Raceway 3 tunel, less than 50% drives between pillars works fine. I inspect "unknown data" after your findings, but its different than UK. There is none "60" or "70" in the tunel, but exactly on the pillars VRoad is column 1 and 9 changed to "06" instead "07". If i change it to "07", AI can drive between pillars without problem. It will need more tests, but it seem "06" is for AI like "obstacle warning in AI line 96".



Edit: I still can't navigate AI betwwen pillars, because i have 2 choices.

1. AI know where pillars are - but they can't follow float numbers between pillars ( AI panic and around 50% times crash or drive very bad ). If few AI's are close to each other ( or player ), they didn't hit pillars much.

2. AI don't know where pillars are - they can follow float numbers between pillars, but if few AI's are close to each other ( or player ), they hit pillars a lot.



10
General NFS / Re: NFSHS AI basics/tutorial
« on: Sep 06, 2023, 1:01 AM »
I had the same problem when i was doing the Scorpio7 AI, AI just won't see the new obstacles on the tracks if they weren't in the original track. Maybe you can try rebuilding the blocks around the pillar with a block from Durham Road (or another track) with a divided section. That unknown data will be maybe transmitted.

11
General NFS / Re: NFSHS AI basics/tutorial
« on: Sep 05, 2023, 11:59 AM »
Quote
Are you really modeling each block polygon by polygon? How is this supposed to even work?

I copy original block as new object ( call it fake object ), change belongings to block near by ( same for all object belonging to block what will be replaced or objects will be deleted ), replace intended block with new one and then merge proper vertex by vertex with fake object. After that i delete fake object. Its hard to explain, but its prety fast, problem is shadows and road lines, that is vertex hell :). I didn't do whole track, just 1 or 2 blocks.

Quote
AI not to drive into objects placed right in the middle of the road like Redrock Ridge or Durham Road.

Im not sure with this, but navigate AI between columns on original track is often impossble. Sometimes polgons on the middle have set Virtual Road Boundary, but it won't help if i uncheck this. Propably unknown polygon data.

Quote
And what is the maximum width for a polygon lane? Can it be something like 25?

Maximum what i tested is 15 i think, but you can't set where AI should drive if doesn't follow float numbers ( mostly on middle AI line ), its propably part of unkown data. Width 4 or 5 is best for making fast AI.

Quote
And i think you're wrong about the 112 AI lane selection, you show in your picture that it is the first right line, but the AI drives on the middle of the road! They drive on the virtual road points, not on the first right lane.

You have partialy right, line 112 is first on the right, but AI may act weird, if doesn't follow float numbers. I think, EA can set where AI should drive without float numbers, propably unknown polygon data too.

If you have specific problem, maybe i can help. I give up writing advanced tips, there isn't universal way how to make AI and i don't have time to write a book.

12
General NFS / Re: NFSHS AI basics/tutorial
« on: Jun 08, 2023, 1:00 AM »
Good explained, but shouldn't this be better in the NFS:HS Workshop?

Maybe, but i'm not Team RSR member.

Quote
So you're saying that one can't create new AI lines with T3ED, but instead one should use a track block which has a large number of AI lines already?

Yes, if you need more lines, you can't add, but you can replace block with block, witch has more AI lines.

I tested this on Celtic Ruins, where i try navigate AI between trees on S curve before finish, but there are no AI lines, only 3 in original track. So i replace whole section with block from Landstrase ( where i know lines exist ), remodel back vertex by vertex and now i have 6 lines on that section.

Missing lines may be problem for AI ( its like hole where AI don't want to drive ), but more lines can be simple limited by Vroad Edge, AI refuse go behind it.

13
General NFS / Re: NFSHS AI basics/tutorial
« on: Jun 02, 2023, 1:36 PM »
ADVANCED TIPS AND TRICKS

LONG TURNS AND U TURNS
If you want AI to drive on the yellow line, you cant put same float number and AI line all the time. It works only on low speed, AI keeps drifting away from the intended route. Best way how to do it, is drive on the AI line edge and switch between inner and outer line. Most of the time i use 2 nodes inner line, 4 nodes outer line and constant speed ( not full throttle ). Sometimes u need more inner or outer, it depends on the turn and speed. Line switch is for AI like signal to turn, 2 nodes inner line - turn little or 4 nodes inner line - turn harder.



14
General NFS / NFSHS AI basics/tutorial
« on: Jun 02, 2023, 1:35 PM »
I did'nt find a track with AI made right, so here is how High Stakes AI should be done. I hope this helps make better AI.

For understanding look on the picture.



Speed - is maximum AI speed in m/s for Champion + MADLAND difficulty. Each difficulty, AI ( Ace, Gotcha, Scream - fastest, Sleepy and Bully - slowest ), weather and surface automaticaly lowers the limit. Weather + snow surface reduce speed limit a lot. For acceleration a i recommend use 111 ( it's 400km/h and easy to find ), for braking use doubled numbers reduced by 2 ( 60,60,58,58,56,56,54,54, ... ), it works best. AI can't slow faster, it's very rare when stronger braking works better.

AI lines
- 112, 128, 144, 160, 176, 192 for the right side 
- 96, 80, 64, 48, 32, 16 for the left side
- lines 16, 32, 176 and 192 may have problematic use

AI lines can be edited through "unknown data", most used are this:

Right side ( column 0 and 8 ):

80 - 1 line ( 112 )
C0 - 2 lines ( 112,128 )
E0 - 3 lines ( 112,128,144 )
60 - 3 lines with obstacle in line 112 ( 128,144 )
F0 - 4 lines ( 112,128,144,160 )
70 - 4 lines with obstacle in line 112 ( 128,144,160 )
F8 - 5 lines ( 112,128,144,160,176 )

Left side ( column 1 and 9 ):

01 - 1 line ( 96 )
03 - 2 lines ( 96,80 )
07 - 3 lines ( 96,80,64 )
06 - 3 lines with obstacle in line 96 ( 80,64 )
0F - 4 lines ( 96,80,64,48 )
0E - 4 lines with obstacle in line 96 ( 80,64,48 )
1F - 5 lines ( 96,80,64,48,32 )

I add more numbers, when i will be sure.

Float numbers - practicly Vroad Node offset. It's distance ( in meters ) from Vroad Node to point, where you want AI to go, negative numbers left side and positive numbers right side.

AI lines have limited width ( 96 and less - negative numbers, 112 and more - positive )

If line width is 4, float and AI lines are bounded like this:
- 96/112 is for 0,1 to 4
- 80/128 is for 4,1 to 7,9
- 64/144 is for 8-12
- 48/160 is for 12,1-15,9
- 32/176 is for 16-20
- 16/180 is for 20,1-23,9

If its 5
- 96/112 is for 0,1 to 5
- 80/128 is for 5,1 to 9,9
...

Thanks to JimDs T3ED update, its possible to change AI line width, but i recommend set AI line width to road width. Traffics drive on middle of AI lines.

AI lines and Float numbers are bouned, but AI lines are priority for AI if float numbers are outside defined AI line or too far! If u set Float number outside of AI line width, opponents will drive on the defined AI line, but ignore float numbers. Also you just can't set float to 0 and switch only AI lines, that didn't work. AI always try to ride the floats even if the AI lines are wrong.

VRoad Edge - dark purple lines, its limit for AI ( opponenst, trafics and cops ), AI driving between them and refuse go outside. You can have 6 AI lines defined, but if VRoad Edge is for example between 3rd and 4th line, AI wont use 4th 5th and 6th line.

Cops - they drive automaticaly and cant be controled. Cops are controlled by Vroad nodes line, existed AI lines and VRoad edge.

IMPORTANT

AI can't drift or slide like player, they need use brakes before turning. For this reason, opponents will never be fast as player, but if you are not like EAOAgent, they can be competitive.

Before testing, you need put all float numbers 2 Vroad nodes sooner than u want ( make backup ), because AI reacts too late. If you did'nt do this, AI may turn too late or crash. It works on 90% cases.

TRACK TEST
First lap around first 8 blocks AI ignore float numbers and drive only on defined AI lines !
I recomend test track with F1 and CLK-GTR ( what works for F1 may not work wor CLK-GTR ), Champion difficulty and Madland cheat for proper speed limit. Also you need test the track with SLK 230, PRO diffiulty, weather set ON and slow AI ( not ACE, SCREAM or GOTCHA ). Pro diffiulty with weather and slow AI may crash where Champion won't. This will show 90% problems.

Sorry for the grammar, I've never studied English. This is my games/movies/translator English:)

15
AI lines ( float numbers ) are made incredibly stupid, so i dont think what EA made ist the best option.
I think you got me wrong, i was going for the way how Poly VRoads are calculated, if you look at original EA tracks you can see that (mostly) the track lane polygons are calculated in a way that is equal to when you recalculate a single one to "straight" and that's important for a smooth drive over behaviour, a counterexample would be a track like Russian Summit :D Where any gradient makes your car bounce

Vroads are calculated this way, because AI didnt always follow float numbers ( blue cars on picture ) like Cops or if opponents are too close each other or close to the player ( lots of testing ). For ideal case game needs different Vroad for float numbers and if they are following only AI lines. If you change AI line in your float numbers line, for opponents its signal straighten car with calculated VRoad, thats why it looks like drifting on S curves. For example Vroad is calculated left ( blue cars ), but float number wants to go right ( red cars ), thats why AI cars drifting a slows them.



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