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Author Topic: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt  (Read 117 times)

FranknFurter

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How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« on: March 18, 2017, 10:00:20 AM »
Been asked how this works,. transferring a torque curve into carp.txt 'torque curve' tab .. best if I explain that by most recent project, the Ford F250 coming with two different engine types:

Open car.viv in NFSWizard (needless to say but ok .. ) and switch to 'gearing/engine' tab. Click on the little red 'curve' icon on right side of the values row to show a pop-up window showing the current torque curve then ..

Choose appropriate car with matching values on 'automobile-catalogue.com' and click 'full specifications', scroll down to 'show torque curve' and a pop-up window will appear showing the (estimated/calculated) torque/power curve in 500rpm steps (you might have to disable pop-up blockers etc. to properly work ..)

Important: your carp.txt needs to be aligned to default 20-step scheme first, if it is for example a 40-step curve that some authors use plz. export it and let RealTuner align it to 20-step torque curve first (RT does this automatically after query when it detects a Carp.txt file in a specific folder ...)

Choose your given torque peak value e.g. '540Nm' by looking at the corresponding rpm value e.g. '540Nm @ 2500rpm', means: 2500rpm is x-axis value '5' in your carp.txt (6000 x2 /1000)and 'distribute' the following values along that scheme correspondingly, means the double value in carp.txt x-axis, for example: 300Nm @ 6000rpm -> y-axis value '300' at '12' (6000 x2 /1000) x-axis value in carp.txt ...

Just to show you some significant differences between a Diesel and a Petrol engine torque curve have a look at:

1) the 6.8L (412 ci) V10 Petrol engine torque/power curve
2) the 7.3L (444 ci) V8 Diesel engine torque/power curve

The torque curve is the orange one each ...

source: 'automobile-catalogue.com'

Tipp: Sometimes the exact model (car) isn't to find on there, I recommend to gather information about the desired car to find out what engine or transmission it uses .. you can find a lot of info already on Wikipedia.com, you can for example find out which other model(s) from particular brand uses e.g. that engine type or transmission, try again find the alternative model on 'automobile-catalogue.com' and have a look at the car then ... ^-^

Was the same issue with the F250, wasn't to find on there but I found a sister/precedessor model of it .. the 'Ford Excursion' using same transmissions and engine types ... :D

If you then insert the correct values (like e.g. weight, turning circle and wheelbase - those values have most significant influence on the driving behaviour) found on other sources into RealTuner it automatically calculates matching carp.txt values for your desired car .. ;)

If no engine redline is given on the website have a look at another short tutorial:
http://www.nfsaddons.com/forums//index.php?topic=1844.msg33815#msg33815 and scroll down to:  'Add.: Explanation: Calculating a redline rpm by certain given gear specification data:' (fairly at the end of posting ..)

RealTuner v.2 program by erkberk@pandora.be (freeware license) is attached bottommost ..
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:33:14 AM by FranknFurter »

WiLL

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2017, 11:12:12 AM »
are you sure it wasn't the Green Beer you had last nite..?   ::) or not enough,  :D isn't a V'10 having 2,more pistols,won't it have more HP. An then more Speed,.an Tork, seems like Over the V8 one.
I made a 740mph. Carp one day last year, just from upping the Values on one,.it was a good make,.but I should try it this way more better. But at the top speed what happen it die out on top end,when i tested it out, on the GT'3. I Modded it really was a fun ride 6 speed =D so I had,to not give full Throttle max in the last gear to stay at my say 730 mph. )
 But was great gearing down from slowly for the end corner, but I lost that carp. Can you make me another better one Frank some day it be Great or a 800 mph one  ^-^ it's a fun feeling on that track hope you can try it out some time.
Were do you get Real Tuner program from. Is for a game or not. Np kinda heard of it before. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 11:15:59 AM by WiLL »

FranknFurter

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2017, 11:38:43 AM »
Quote from: WiLL
Can you make me another better one Frank some day it be Great or a 800 mph one
definetely not .. sry bro, happy to have found a way to make HS more realistic rather than producing fantasy values ... :-\

A V10 engine doesn't necessarily have to have more power than a V8, but what I wanted to point out was the general engine characteristics between a Diesel and a Petrol engine concerning their torque curves' graph course ... :o

A petrol engine's torque curve characteristic is often compared to a 'feline preditor' in jump while a Diesel engine characteristic is considered more like that of a bull's outer shape heading towards left ..
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 12:08:10 PM by FranknFurter »

WiLL

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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2017, 12:07:30 PM »
Yes I know all,about that cause you posted, it an I read it. Some people just want be To Realistic, all the time..? Doesn't make a lot Sence-,to for a it being a Car game, named after Speed.. :o  So I know about being, Realistic.. I see it every day. But then we can have Alternatives, about making.. the rite choices or not..
Anyway... have a well one.. but you should try that speed with the Chally-' Engine Sound,  its Nice.
An Fun.. like the Game is.. at times  :-\  experiments pal. Not all Fantasy to me.
I read your comment Frank below was good.
As ling as it work is the thing with HS.   =D cya around bro...
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 01:14:10 PM by WiLL »

FranknFurter

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2017, 12:14:59 PM »
I see well what you mean bro, but in a certain and very limited way even HS allows to generate realistic driving behaviour, as said in a very limited way and if you somehow know how to manage that .. ;)

Geminiyo

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2017, 06:37:58 PM »
Cant go through over... even its half past 4 of the morning. Being on sleeping pills, i see there no problem to reply.

...you cannot decide proper Torq. If you spending 10 minutes in a day playing Tetris or something - its no way you can do this in realistic way. Well. you better laydown on someones xp about that. EA for example. I doing it each time i having difficulties (Shift2). Everybody knows that that I havent drive a car in a real life since the time II was born in 1985.

If you really decided to get It real in HS, go ahead, try, do the unti-torque curved lines...
I can feel the torque (as everything else) is hard to decide, because of grip at highest speeds. You kinda see the car doesnt go lateral move, and you like automaticly thinking its the reason the end of Tourq is not enough high. You gotta be magician to setup you own HS vision of Torque for less than 1 day ...or 1 year.
On other hand to get realistical Torq in HS you MUST use Steering Wheel to do that. 2 - watch out for moving/shaking Camera on the car (in 3D world), it may just fool you around. The SWheel is must have again... you just believe my words.


FranknFurter

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 11:11:32 PM »
Well first of all I did not expect replies on that posting :o, it was rather meant to be another little tutorial I was seeing this also being moved to there but ok ..

Secondly, I have been doing this not just for a day or two but many years and also with other games, all I wanted to point out was a way to not just make car performances somewhat more realistic (what is of course more or less impossible with HS lately I am well aware of that ..) but also make the cars better comparable among each other based on the same facts like e.g. their drivetrain data that can be found on one single website providing almost any thinkable car not many several different ones like in the years before.

Of course the given default HS data can also be used for comparation but what about the large amount of addon cars outside the HS car roaster then? What performances should they be given, just fantasy ones?

Generally, I do not claim to have found the 'universally valid' way to make HS car performances -no way that- but just showing an alternative and this tutorial was somehow meant to further help with that if you might want to recalculate your car data based upon my other tutorial ..

All I lately did was using erkberk's nice Carp.txt calculation tool 'RealTuner v.2' to assist me on that way and if you have a closer look at some performance files I did I do not just adopt the given values by it but adapt it to somewhat more 'HS-friendly' and 'fun-oriented', mostly to the better by my HS 'experiences' meaning already far from so-called 'reality' .. ;)

As a third aspect, I have driven several different cars in life myself also heavier ones and another friend of mine is a certified master engine mechanic who definetely knows what he is talking about who can affirm many facts about different engine type characteristics so e.g. these graphs are not just being theorectical .. :)

Zpectre

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2017, 11:30:24 PM »
The engine of HS is very weird because it doesn't seem to use values based on real measurements, so it's quite hard to calibrate. Torque is easy to setup, but to really get those numbers accurate you must tune Gear Efficiency values. Those are arguably more important than torque itself. The CLK-GTR is very fast but EA gave it a very bad Gear Efficiency value in the lowest gears, crippling its acceleration compared to the McLaren, especially under rainy/snowy conditions.

Unfortunately it's nearly impossible to figure these values out because Gear Efficiency means how well the car puts down power to the ground, and that is largely dependant on a multitude of factors. My advice is to use a track with a flat start/finish line and tune it there... Gear Efficiency will always increase as the car's speed increases since rolling resistance is less.

FranknFurter

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 11:53:30 PM »
Agreed Zpectre more weird than explainable, so I'm trying to at least 'align' those other values by given drivetrain data .. =D

.. if you try different acceleration values for instance you get (if you let RT calculate it ..) either a strongly ascending curve starting from very low values for the gear efficiency row or an -almost- straight one if you set the acceleration somewhat 'neutral' around ten seconds to 100kph -presumed all other values are correct- leading up to a very steep declining one if you increase acceleration to unrealistic values ..

.. but what seems comparable (that's why I've written this above tutorial) is that rpm adjustment is set to 10.000rpm ('20' in NFSWizard x-axis torque curve window) if the redline is calculated correctly so this makes some other drivetrain calculations at least more possible .. ::)

Geminiyo

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Re: How to transfer torque curves into carp.txt
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2017, 09:30:46 AM »
The Clip I made couple hours ago.
The Clip has no sound of a car and ambience, it easier to catch the sight on whats going on on the track. Try to take a closer sight comparing to the real life driving abbilities and xp.
    https://youtu.be/Jaqsk1d3m4E

    This is the Shelby GT500 Eleanor. It has 4lower handling, but it has Original EA's Lamborghini Diablo SV engine setup on both 3 Torque variations (except the Torque itself); Gear Efficiency, and Minimum RPM. Torques hasnt been set over  the Original EA's car, they had the absolute "600" volue (relatively accurate). The handling is absolute from 4lower v4 - which never was posted, because never was close to finish. This one dated year and a half ago. Its not accurate, but i like it more than original somehow. Right now Im at 4lower v.5 (here on the forums)...

   My own opinion about High Stakes Torque physics. The Torque that closer to this,

is standing closer to realism in the HS game (very very roughly saying). I mean, Not exactly the same or 100% flat. You can bend it as you can, but, at the end, if someone want realism it suppose to be closest to the picture as much as it can be possible without hurting the car's abbilities to accelerate - thats only in my opinion. (thats the style im using in v.5. Personally, I dont even see the reason why I need to changed to each car's torq separately. I spent some huge amount of time on that torq, and im still glad of it, never was sad about it).
   The lack of acceleration at highest speed, maybe simply fixed by increasing highest Gears Efficiency. Thats what i logicly can understand in this game. // The Torque preset called "Out of Realism" is just like High Stakes sometimes, can do worst. I see it simple: Car does not going backsides like it should be. Its like bubble gum at the Griping realism.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwmqNtDg30G6OGtqSVRIWV9OUkE/view?usp=sharing
   All the 3 variations of Eleanor (Different Torques) is in Archive. If you like the conception you may want to test it.